Bought a Red Mid Engined SportsCar from the 80s...

"Wonk Unit" (WonkUnit) 08/16/2013 at 17:36 • Filed to: None

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Last friday i saw this little MR2 on the local Lemon Lot, and i had to check it out. the next day, for better or for worse, she was mine. Over the last week I've been getting to know the little Mr.2, and here's what I've found so far.

Vehicle Details: Born in 1987, 190k miles, straight body, fresh paint, gorgeous interior, new suspension bushings and exhaust, otherwise completely stock. must have been well cared for to be this clean inside.

EDIT: for those who dont' want to read.

SUMMARY: Car is fun and i'm happy with the purchase. interested in suggestions or comments from current/past/future MR2 owners.

Impression so far:

( Disclaimer: i own 2 Miatas, a '99 and a '93, most of the comparisons will be to these cars because i don't know any different. I may also suffer from "Travis Okulski Syndrome" as i firmly believe Miatae are the greatest cars every produced and will never publicly admit otherwise. )

EXTERIOR: I absolutely love the looks of this car. To me its got the perfect ammount of 80s funky boxiness, and boy racer style. There's an intake scoop with louvers, but only on the passenger's side. The side skirts and front lip look like a boy racer body kit, and that wing! Every time i look in the rear view mirror i chuckle. all the race car body bits help keep it "grounded to the ground," or so I've been told by Toyota's TV ads... The funky triangle wheels complete the look. Also, POP-UP HEADLIGHTS add at least 10,000 cool points. All of it adds up to a good, but silly looking car. I can't help but turn around and look at it every time i walk away, and to me that's the ultimate judge of vehicle aesthetics.

INTERIOR:

The 80s is strong with this one. This interior has been well cared for and is completely stock except for the radio, which sounds good enough for me. seats are plush and comfy, and hold you surprisingly well, but are by no means racing buckets. overall it feels bigger than a Miata even though they share virtually the same wheelbase. Again, 80s funkiness rules the layout but visibility is good, and all the features and electronics work, even the A/C!

RIDE & HANDLING:

i really really love the manual steering in this thing. it is a little loose/dead around center but once in a turn it loads up nicely and gives good feedback. I can place it at an apex quite easily. The manual rack lends a heavier, more planted feel to the car, especially compared to the 1st gen Miata's twitchy power steering rack. Both give you feedback, but go about it different ways.

The car is very stable in corners so far, feels solid and i find myself going through turns alot faster than i do in the older Miata, a lot less body roll in the MR2 as well. However, this car does suffer from the mr2 clunk in the front. over bumps it sometimes makes a horrendous noise, like a suspension arm is loose. From research on the internets this could be any number of front suspension items: steering rack, tie rod ends, ball joints, sway bar mounts, or struts. further investigation will reveal the cause (hopefully easily and cheaply fixed).

ENGINE & TRANSMISSION:

Call me a ricer but I've always like the sound when VTEC kicked in yo, so i love the engine note in this car. At 4500 rpm when the T-VIS kicks in (yo) it sounds mean. I suspect the gearing is longer than the Miatas, the 4 AGE doesn't rev as quickly and i find i need to be a gear lower than usual for most corners, its harder to keep the motor on boil. That said, its got more torque in the mid range, and it peters out at the top, so you don't have to wring it to redline to get the most out of it.

Transmissions on these cars can suffer from "5th gear pop out" but i got lucky with this high miler and it doesn't show any of the symptoms. The shifter feel was always going to be less than perfect in this mid engined car, especially compared to the sublime shifting in the Miata. A Miata has got the shifter coming directly out of the tranny, where as the MR2's has to go through a linkage whose bushings I'm sure are worn quite a bit, adding to the vague and rubbery feeling. Also there's no getting over that the shifter itself resembles a piece of male anatomy.

BRAKES:

Brakes on this car are initially quite good, progressive and stop well. However, i took it up and down the local ski hill and cooked them pretty good. I was not going any faster than usual and i've never had that problem in the Miatas.

OVERALL:

So far i'm pretty happy with my purchase, it will make a good daily vehicle to fight the boredom of a morning commute. I do not have any plans to modify it right now, although i'm curious to see what other MR2 owners have found to be the best "bang for your buck" as far as mods go. I will address the mediocre brakes, and take care of that clunking though.

I'm interested to hear what current/past owners of these cars think. Comments? Questions? Suggestions? Snide Remarks?

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 17:42

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Manual Trans issues.

Speedo Cable breaks, pain to fix.

And a posting elsewhere said to watch for clunks in front end...

Lets Just Drive > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 17:44

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TL;DR but going to.

Caught the headline and wanted to come in here and throat-punch you. It's nothing personal, but I've always lusted for the right MR2 but I've never, ever been able to fit in one. In a MX5 my head sits at roof level. I've folded myself, painfully, into an S2K but there's just no physical way for me to ever, ever get to own and drive one of these little monsters which, I want for summer and track days.

Gonna go read your review now but before I do...

/throatpunch!

Lucky bastard.

Chris Clarke > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 17:44

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Toyota before it went beige. Looks like fun. Buddy once described his MR2 like driving a street legal go kart.

Lets Just Drive > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 17:48

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Mind if I ask what you paid, Wonk?

Wonk Unit > Lets Just Drive 08/16/2013 at 17:50

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I was lucky to be the first guy to call on this, it had alot of people gunning for it. it definitely does have more headroom than a miata. My dad is 6'3'' and cannot drive the Miata. he CAN however drive this.

Leadbull > Lets Just Drive 08/16/2013 at 17:57

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Google "foamectomy".

As a fellow tall guy, I feel your pain. Although my height is in my legs, so I can still fit in small sports cars.

Lets Just Drive > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 18:05

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WHAT?!

I'm 6'5.

Brian, The Life of > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 18:12

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Looks like a well-loved/cared for specimen. Congrats!

ZR1fan > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 18:32

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I wouldnt mod it, just fix the brakes and whatever the clunk is.. Maybe look into the shifter bushings and then just enjoy it. You may sour on any mods you make later on, whereas a clean piece like this will have timeless appeal.

NaturallyAspirated > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 19:13

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Thanks for the interesting writeup. As a former Miata owner, I've always wondered how the Miata and MR2 compare to one another. Very enjoyable read.

Variance > Wonk Unit 08/16/2013 at 19:27

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Periodically browsing the local lemon lot is a a past-time I dearly miss from my days growing up on military bases, although nowadays my propensity to want to buy cars could likely result in such visits being painful to my wallet...

Dunnik > Wonk Unit 08/17/2013 at 00:43

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Score, enjoy! Always had a soft spot for Toyota's mini-Ferrari.

Wonk Unit > Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT 08/17/2013 at 10:26

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i've got the clunks in the front, still need to check it out. my speedo isn't as smooth as a newer car, i'll keep an eye on it. thanks!

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > Wonk Unit 08/17/2013 at 13:06

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If the clunk happens too long it can destroy where the anti roll bar attaches to the body...I'd get on it asap.

Grease the cable.

They pop out of fifth occasionally due to soft bushings.

I have a 1987 that needs a new trans...I never get to drive it or work on it unfortunately.

Kanaric > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 02:07

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good choice, thinking of buying one myself

CelrDwelr > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 02:18

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Here's my suggestion: Re-creation! Mr. Rally Beast.

Break-Mend-Continue > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 02:27

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Good on you! The old AW11 is a very underrated fun car. I bought my ex-US 1985 example that ended up in Australia almost by accident. I planned to flip it pretty quickly. But it's so much fun to hoon around in, I still have it three years later. Mine is quite scruffy, but that suits me as I don't have to take care where I park it.

Maybe one day I'll tidy up the body, if I keep it long enough.

kenhitch > CelrDwelr 08/20/2013 at 02:41

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Mister 2000?

288GTOhYEAH > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 02:42

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So how bad is the automatic version of this?

I mean if it was not going to be Mr. Boy Racer, just a cruiser with good looks,mpg, and small footprint, how is the Automatic version of one of these? How tuneable would the automatic one be?

IDriveASaabAndNobodyIsToBlame > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 04:03

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Congrats! Looks very nice and clean. Would be happy to have one as a summer car. You lucky punk.

kArno > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 04:08

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This is an awesome car and very fitting for the current economic and urban situation better then the SMART car for sure :) Congratulation on the purchase.

Sparf > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 06:03

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Want! T-VIS is pretty awful though (especially if it breaks). My '88 Celica GT-Four's 3S-GTE has it and it apparently makes cylinder #3 run lean at low RPMs. If I can figure out a way to fit it in the engine bay without mutilating the fire wall I'm going to install an AE111-derived ITB setup, complete with a custom intake manifold since the engine's turbocharged.

A-J-I > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 07:09

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Lovely. I'm also in the "Miatas are awesome" camp but I really want an early MR2. Soon...

Jason.MZW20 > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 07:21

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Welcome to the MKI MR2 ownership world; be sure to visit the MR2 forums for solutions to common issues and stuff. I have a 1991 MKII, also with manual steering (FTW).

TVIS is nothing like VTEC though (I know you're probably joking, but others might make incorrect assumptions). It's more of a variable geometry intake system, but not nearly as good as its successor, ACIS. It's like a velocity modifier by reducing the port area of the intake ports (which also has the effect of increasing torque). So, if this is an intake port, at low-revs, it'd look like this: X.O, (where X=closed) so the port is split into two round orifices, one with a butterfly valve to open and close as TVIS is activated/deactivated. At higher revs (whatever the TVIS activation point might be), the butterfly valve on the ports opens, and it looks like this: O.O, which gives you the highest amount of port flow.

Both TVIS and ACIS do change the tone of the engine though, which I think is interesting. 2nd and 3rd gen 3SGEs were equipped with ACIS, as TVIS wasn't really the best implementation of a variable intake. ACIS actually shortens and lengthens the intake runners, rather than reducing the cross-section of the intake ports. ACIS works more on the theory of Helmholtz Resonance. Not sure about TVIS.

You can get a general idea of the system here as well (if my word isn't good enough): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-VIS

J-Tenno > Lets Just Drive 08/20/2013 at 07:52

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Most often I wish I was taller (around 175 cm or so) but when I read commentaries like yours or Doug de Muro's, I feel much better about my height.

Thanks, and I'm sorry for your height. Let's combine our height and get a decent average?

J-Tenno > Dunnik 08/20/2013 at 07:53

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It will never beat a Fiero, though!

thegrover > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 08:59

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Always thought the MR2 was cool looking. However after owning my 1991 Miata for 10 years I am still in love with it. It puts a smile on mu face every time I drive it. Note I am 68 and have owned and driven many other sports cars and the Miata is by far my favorite.

William Robinson > Sparf 08/20/2013 at 09:34

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This is true my old 86 celica gt-s killed two engines because of thatissue. Im pretty sure its current engine is failing in the same way, but I no longer own it, so its not my problem.

TheMadSciontist > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 10:00

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What to do with it? SCCA.

PostOMatic2000 > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 10:16

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Welcome to the AW11. I bought a $400 basket case many years ago, and have been tinkering with it ever since.

1. Intake - A popular addition (and it looks like this may have already been done) is a cold air intake. It probably doesn't add any HP, but it's easy to do and makes you feel like you have accomplished something.

2. Exhaust - Has probably rusted out by now, and the two manufactures of replacements (Bosal and Walker) have recently discontinued the parts. Start looking for parts cars.

3. Handling - A set of poly bushings is the best place to start. The 25+ year old rubber is probably tired by now. The '85 came with a rear roll bar, and its a popular upgrade for later years.

4. Rubber - The seals around the doors and T-Tops are probably past due as well. TwosRus can hook you up with replacements.

HardwareWars > Lets Just Drive 08/20/2013 at 10:33

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913 words. just saying.

HardwareWars > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 10:44

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Sorry for trolling but please... run a spell check before ever posting another article.

I'm interested to hear what current/past owners of these cars think. Comments? Questions? Suggestions? Snide Remarks?

I own a Miata as well so here you go. Please fix;
-friday
- i
- the
- must
- dont'
- i'm
- interested
- i
- ammount
- i
- i
- all
- i
- seats
- overall
- i
- it
- i
- alot
- i
- over
- further
- i
- i
- i
- engifned (misspelling a word that isn't real to begin with..)
- i
- i've
- i'm
- i'm
..to name a handful

90supra > Lets Just Drive 08/20/2013 at 10:47

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I'm at 6'3" and can easily fit in and drive this car while Miatas are a bit tight. Surprising amount of leg-room in there.

Brumos59fan > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 10:54

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Really nice find!!! My first car was a 1986 MR2 sunroof and I loved it but I couldn't find one that nice in NY back in 1995!!! Mine had just over 100k, 4 different color body panels, the suspension bushings were shot and it was missing it's spoilers. A white '87 t-top parts car fixed most of that while adding yet another color. Girls loved it anyway and it was a blast to drive. Good in the winter too w/ snow tires. There aren't that many good ones left so take care of it and it will only go up in value.

F50F60 > CelrDwelr 08/20/2013 at 11:03

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What the hell is that?? Looks angry and hot!!

TheBlackKeys > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 11:21

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Silver 1985 MR2 was my first car, at 16. It was a manual, which was amazing. I really did love that car. I loved it so much I had a "No Fear" sticker on that back window. There was something about the way it felt that I still miss it to this day.

The problems I had with it though were not many, I of course found my own ways of dealing with them.

1. Leaked oil, a lot. I basically had to top it off every couple of days, and kept a quart with me at all times.

2. AC/Heater didn't work. Being in Texas, this sucked. I was 16-17 though, so, I dealt with it.

3. Head lights went wonky all the time. Sometimes when I flipped the switch, they would do this little dance (Up and down, up and down, and not in sync). It was as if it was possessed.

Grant you, this was all in the late 90's, before I had access to the intewebs, and could have probably fixed it all with the knowledge that is out there now, and $50 bucks worth of parts.

dave > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 11:39

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I had virtually this exact car - down to the color - mine was an 86 - bought it from a friend when it was 6 months old (they decided to buy a house - pfft).

I loved that car from day 1 - and the only think that made me love it more was, (after 2 flat tires in 1 weekend - don't ask) I put on a set of Pirelli P600s. After that the damn thing was just plain glued to the ground - felt like i could take any corner without braking (and did - quite a few times).

Only problem I ever had with it was a rattle from the engine bay (right behind my head of course) that I always figured was a heat shield but the local dealer could never find the cause.

I miss that car every day - a similar one pulled up next to me at the pumps a while back - it was all I could do not to gush over it.

dave > J-Tenno 08/20/2013 at 11:41

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I dated a nurse who had the Fiero when I had the MR2 - I liked mine better

dave > Chris Clarke 08/20/2013 at 11:43

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"street legal go-cart" is absolutely accurate - after I changed over to the P600s I used to describe it as like 'it was on rails in the corners'

AdmiralAkbar > J-Tenno 08/20/2013 at 11:45

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At what? Breaking? Being less cool?

AdmiralAkbar > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 11:47

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There is a poster or magazine ad from the mid 80s, and I will do wonderful things to whoever can find it: it's a picture of the MR2, the Supra, and Corolla GT-S, and said something like "Toyota is bringing back fun" (something like that). I want this ad so badly.

AdmiralAkbar > AdmiralAkbar 08/20/2013 at 12:00

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FINALLY FOUND IT (and purchased it)

Reginald Fessenden > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 12:06

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I owned a 1st gen MR2 almost identical to this example, though a 1986 model. Put over 200k miles on it and have often said it was the best car ever. Never broke and I mean NEVER. Was still the time when the little old ladies were assembling cars for Toyota and they obviously had an incredible level of integrity. Had a 2nd gen MR2 Turbo for a short time but it lacked the soul of the 1st gen Mister 2. Coincidently also owned a 1st gen Miata, but much preferred the MR2. As a further aside, the guy that owned the local Ferrari dealer (Ferrari of Los Gatos) used a Supercharged MR2 as his commute car "over the hill" from Santa Cruz. 'Nuf said.

J-Tenno > AdmiralAkbar 08/20/2013 at 12:36

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I think your sarcasm'o'meter is broken.

DrunkenPanda > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 12:36

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Congrats! Welcome to the world of '87 mix and match. :D

- Looks like you have the late interior but early tail lights. The early/late comparison lists are fun but don't really help. You just deal with it.
- Get that clunk fixed ASAP. Can't properly hoon with broken parts.
- For a crisper shifter feel, I recommend a short shift kit and spherical shift cable bushing set.
- Lube the speedo cable! It probably hasn't been done. One sign of it needing care is a bouncing speedo at low speeds.
- Good luck with the t-tops, make sure they're properly secured or you might have one flying away on you on the highway. Leaks are common but can be fixed.
- I recommend a brake brace. It will feel much more confident.
- Not to advertise (I'm not affiliated), but if you need parts, look up Twos R Us and kbox. Great suppliers / people in the community.

If you get tired of the 4AGE, you can always toss a V6 in there. ;)

MINI STIG > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 12:39

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I have owned 3 of these over the years. 2 drivers and 1 parts car. I bought my first MkI back in 1987. So with that said here are a couple of things for you.

1. A decent intake and exhaust will genuinely help these engines breathe better at high revs.

2. Changing the water pump or anything else at the front of the motor really sucks.

3. Don't warm it up very much at all before you change the oil or else you will burn your arm on the exhaust manifold when you try to undo the filter.

4. Twos R Us urethane motor mount inserts really tighten up the driveline and make shifting much more positive.

5. Don't dare park the car with the emergency brake on in cold weather. The stupid cables love to freeze.

6. Since you have an 87 you should have the C52 tranny instead of the original C50. The C50 shifts a bit smoother but is the one that is much more notorious for the 5th gear popout problem. So with proper care you should be good to go for a long time.

7. These engines use shim under buckets for the valve clearances. They are a pain to do but at least they don't go out of adjustment very often. www.mr2oc.com maintains a shim swap page if/when you need certain sizes.

Finally, just keep the revs up and drive it. These cars are a blast to drive and get great mileage but hate to be short shifted or lugged.

Have fun!!

Wonk Unit > Jason.MZW20 08/20/2013 at 12:44

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good to know about TVIS. I assumed it was Toyota's version of Vtec, but looks like i was wrong. I'll have to look into this further. Thanks!

Wonk Unit > PostOMatic2000 08/20/2013 at 12:48

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Ok i may have lied when i said it was 100% stock. The previous Owner put in a new but stock exhaust, and he also replaced the bushings with Polyurethane. I'll have to check the seals, it doesn't rain much here in NM which is both good and bad.

I also have a story about a $400 AW11 which will need further explaining in another post.

Wonk Unit > HardwareWars 08/20/2013 at 12:51

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U must B bord 2 check my speeling. As an engineer I don't believe in spelling, grammar, or capitalization. You're lucky this post was readable at all.

Hoy! Lip buddy pawnch! > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 12:59

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You have a clean MR2. I won't say what is obvious (join the MR2oc, destroy rust, maintenance, blah blah blah) but as an owner of 2 first gen AW11, here you go.
- Upgrade brake pads and rotors (if need be). It's a night and day difference. You will love it, your passenger will love it. It drops panties, boxers and stopping distance. Celica GT-Four (st205) front brakes fit (twin piston) and the single from a second gen (st185) fit, rears from a GT-Four or 2nd gen MR2 can fit with some work but a simple pad change is enough for a daily.
- The 3rd gen MRS rims are a cheap upgrade; staggered as well.
- The manual stick that you so covertly mentioned does indeed feel like a wang. I love my wang. It is a very comfortable design. Women love it, men love it, Morrissey would love it if he wasn't still driving a Jensen Interceptor.
- They don't like being lowered too much.
- check the frunk, trunk, rear wheel well, both fenders (follow A pillar downwards towards fender, a lot of crap gets stuck on the bottom of the fender), weather seals (non hard tops are notorious for leaking) water collection areas for rust prone areas.
As for power upgrades? There's the SC version, dropping in a Toyota 4age series engine (black, red, silver, polka dot), 3sgte (2nd gen MR2 or Celica Alltrac turbo) or a V6. There are others but the above are proven with more support.
In closing I love my twos. They are incredibly cheap (and typically beaten or rusted out) to purchase and regardless of what other owners will say make a fun vehicle. You aren't going to win drag races or even touge battles (no matter how hard you jump the curbs) but they really start to grow on you.

CelrDwelr > F50F60 08/20/2013 at 13:19

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This is a 600 hp, 1,700 lb. MR2-based monster. It was going to be Toyota's Group B rally racer for '87, but Group B was cancelled right when they finished building it. They had been campaigning a Celica in the series to limited success and they wanted something that would work better on twisty European stages. It never raced furr realz, but one showed up at a Goodwood not too long ago.

HardwareWars > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 13:30

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as a software developer, I do.

Wonk Unit > DrunkenPanda 08/20/2013 at 13:38

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Thanks for the advice. i will definitely check out the shifter bushings and brake brace. everyone seems to be recommending twosRus, so they must be doing something right.

ZimFreak > CelrDwelr 08/20/2013 at 13:39

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...those box flares o_o

Wonk Unit > thegrover 08/20/2013 at 14:19

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I've had my '99 for 6 years now, and the '93 for one. I think I'll always have at least one Miata hanging around. They've definitely spoiled me for steering and shifter feel as well as fun!

CDNSTIG > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 14:20

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What did you cut and paste from Google everything about MR2s?

Seriously, you drive a jellybean with fake teeth and call one of the best engineered cars you can buy from the 80's silly looking?

PostOMatic2000 > PostOMatic2000 08/20/2013 at 14:23

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Is the steering wheel stock? The 85 certainly didn't have an airbag, but it looks like yours does.

Anyway, if you are in NM then my next 47 comments about rust repair won't apply. Just keep oil in it or you will find out how fun it is so swap in a new shortblock!

CelrDwelr > ZimFreak 08/20/2013 at 14:27

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*sigh* What might have been...

F50F60 > CelrDwelr 08/20/2013 at 15:31

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Well, fuck me in the asshole with no lube!! That is a bad ass MR2. I had a very clean 86 MR2 a few years back. I'ma fucking idiot for selling it!!

CDNSTIG > Break-Mend-Continue 08/20/2013 at 15:58

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If it's not rusty it's worth preserving.

CDNSTIG > J-Tenno 08/20/2013 at 16:01

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The MR2 beat the Fiero in every conceivable way possible.

Performance ... reliability.

brandegee > Wonk Unit 08/20/2013 at 16:59

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Toyota's VTEC is really the VVT-i system, which Toyota implemented after Honda. T-VIS and ACIS are basically the same idea, and I believe both operate on the principle of Helmholtz resonance (as do all modern intakes, variable intake or no). The ACIS system has the advantage of being more efficient: just one valve, which separates the two sides of the intake plenum, is actuated instead of the four valves in T-VIS (one for each dual runner). Both systems are usually abandoned in higher-horsepower builds where a large-port intake is needed. They are both vacuum-actuated but pretty reliable. Some claim the T-VIS hurts the engine long-term, though. This link might explain it better than the wiki:

http://www.turbomr2.com/MR2/Reference/…

KUNIO_20X6 > CelrDwelr 08/20/2013 at 17:58

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Holy! I've never seen that before! That looks crazy awesome!!!

Break-Mend-Continue > CDNSTIG 08/20/2013 at 19:09

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There is no rust. Just a lot of dents and the paint is thin and faded. A mate tried to buff it up for me with no luck. If I ever do restore it I'd like to put it back to LHD as it was converted to RHD to register it here. This car arrived approximately a year before Toyota sold them here, so it may well have been the first privately owned MR2 in Aus!

Lets Just Drive > J-Tenno 08/20/2013 at 20:39

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I wouldn't trade my height for a career in racing, let's say. But I'd be happy if, occasionally, small cars were built for tall people.

Lets Just Drive > HardwareWars 08/20/2013 at 20:41

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I DR before commenting, and then I didn't DR afterwards.

Lets Just Drive > 90supra 08/20/2013 at 20:44

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Well, I'm 6'5 and I must be a freak because they've never fit me.